Forum: Theology

martha

posts:36

God Problems

I'm going to get to the brass tax. I'd like to discuss my problems with the christian god. I'm very much of the opinion that such a god, as presented, is at best a paradox of philosophies. Here is my reasoning:

Postulates given by christian religion as I understand them:
1. God is all powerful. His will is reality.
2. God is all knowing. There is nothing that god isn't aware of.
3. God created everything.
4. God is good, sometimes described as benevolent, certainly merciful...

Problem:
If postulates 1,2 and 3 are true, then 4 most certainly can not be true.

Reasoning:
Take this example, you're sitting there, minding your own business and an apple from the tree you're under drops right onto your head. An incident of almost certain happenstance, but not so according to the first three postulates. God knew that apple was going to hit you on the head. He knew it when you sat down at under the tree, he knew it before anything existed. He had to have known it if we accept postulate 2. Now, when he was creating the universe, as postulate 3 demands, it would have been something he was aware of then too; that by creating the universe, he would cause the tree to assault you with delicious fruit. Now, you could argue that getting smacked in the head is an acceptable price for existence, but it didn't have to happen really. If god is all powerful, he could have created the universe in a way that the apple didn't fall on your head. In fact, at any given point in time between the universe's creation and the bump on your head, he could have prevented or changed it. It isn't just a matter of being in the wrong spot at the wrong time, god intended it to happen. He intended everything to happen and thus it does.

Now, this isn't exactly rocket science, or Nietzsche level philosophy. But when you consider god's responsibility for everything you have to admit that god is responsible for things deemed good as well as things deemed evil. Can god be truly good as judged by the same standards as those that praise him? The very fact that he's unquestionably responsible for every "vile" act aver committed sort of puts a kink in that concept. So, unless you define "good" such that it is equivalent as "evil", postulate 4 fails.

Obviously, this is just the tip of iceberg of problems I have with these concepts... But, I'd like to discuss with people who truly believe god is good and why my logic is wrong. I'd like to understand why these readily available concepts in not just christian religions are whole heartedly accepted without question...

on: Fri 15 of Apr, 2005 [06:26 UTC]

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on: Wed 11 of May, 2005 [00:30 UTC]

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> suzuri:
God created humans with free will becuase we are 'happier' that way. By doing so he allows us to step into dangerous situations. Were he to prevent us from doing so he would be negating our fredom of choice. If we choose to sit under a tree we assume the related risks. he has tried to guide us by giving us a guide book and an example.

Free will is another problem I have with the concept of an all knowing all powerful god. The free will argument is often used to liberate god from responsibility of heinous acts. Basically, free will, given the first 3 postulates I mentioned in the first posts, must be an illusion.

Think of it this way. The universe is a series of dominos. God set them up, god has the power to start and stop them falling at any time he wishes and knows the exact outcome of every drop. To say we have free will is to say that a domino could decide not to fall. That would contradict the 2nd postulate. We can not make a choice that god did not expect us to make, we can not make a choice that he did not intend us to make. Unless you argue away at least one of the first three postulates you can not assume free will. Discounting any of those postulates, however, means that you argue against many modern religions.

You are correct that I'd never assume your beliefs based on what you say in this forum. I just don't understand why this sort of conversation isn't more common than it is. .... or rather why this conversation doesn't take place without all of the witch burning, "Herretic!" yelling and that such.

on: Sat 30 of Apr, 2005 [01:32 UTC]

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Hmm. How many times have I hashed the god question? I shudder to imagine.

The short of it is I have put an obscene ammount of thought into this and here is the "god's advocate" argument:

God created humans with free will becuase we are 'happier' that way. By doing so he allows us to step into dangerous situations. Were he to prevent us from doing so he would be negating our fredom of choice. If we choose to sit under a tree we assume the related risks. he has tried to guide us by giving us a guide book and an example.

Now what I believe may be somewhat different, but I don't think that was what you were looking for. Still, I'll tell you if you ask.

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suzuri, 05:01 UTC, Sat 17 of Mar, 2007: Sooo... How about that local civic group or roller derby team?

martha, 19:52 UTC, Mon 02 of Oct, 2006: No fair, I was in Fresno, I couldn't respond!

suzuri, 21:55 UTC, Sat 23 of Sep, 2006: I'm moving again. I only shout it out here for tradtion's sake. *grin*

martha, 21:00 UTC, Thu 29 of Sep, 2005: VERY LOUD NOISES!

suzuri, 19:35 UTC, Wed 18 of May, 2005: two, too, to, tu...they sound so alike....

suzuri, 19:34 UTC, Wed 18 of May, 2005: Curse the half hour lunch that is fourty-five minutes two short for me to sink my teeth into forum posting! It is my nemisis and my antithisis! I who am chaos incarnarte use fould terms to decry this bloody abuse of my need for income!

suzuri, 17:42 UTC, Tue 08 of Feb, 2005: So. looks like I may be moving south...interview is on Friday. yay.

martha, 06:46 UTC, Wed 29 of Dec, 2004: What words from yonder mountain speaks?

suzuri, 00:48 UTC, Wed 10 of Nov, 2004: I need a new bike.

martha, 22:38 UTC, Fri 05 of Nov, 2004: You think Runescape is bad, you should try this new Tic-Tac-... something game. I think I've played for 85 hours straight now.